Women in TV

19 Aug 2009 23 Comments

by Nikkiin tv Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Maybe it’s just the shows I watch or the books I read, but I find one strange similarity between them all… there is rarely, if ever, a woman as the ultimate lead character.  In fact, off the top of my head, I can only name Star Trek: Voyager and Sanctuary as shows I’ve watched with a female lead.  But I’ve got a notoriously bad memory, so let’s make a list (in a rough order of air time from the 2008-2009 season).

Buuut I’ll put it under a cut cuz I really hate uncut long articles on blogs.

  • House – I’m pretttty sure the perma-stubble gives away the gender of the lead character
  • Chuck – The last time I checked, Sarah wasn’t the lead character
  • Castle – Third show in a row to be named after the male lead? Niiiice Nikki, niiice.
  • The Big Bang Theory – One female character in the regular cast. ’nuff said.
  • Fringe – I’m not sure on this one… Olivia is sorta the main character, but Walter steals the screen and Peter is almost as important as Olivia.  It is a bit too ensemble-y with the three leads to really count as a female lead. Getting close, though!
  • Criminal Minds – This show has not one, but two male leads
  • Bones – Brennan and Booth are equally important, as seen by the title screen with both Emily Deschanel and David Boreanaz in the most equal manner possible
  • Eleventh Hour – Canceled, yes, but Rufus Sewell (aka, the male lead) is yummy enough for me to watch the show again… and again… and again…. Oh, the science is great too.
  • Sanctuary – Amanda Tapping!
  • Eureka – Male lead. But, wut wut, the not-Tony-Stark character is on the screen?  Get that sheriff outta my line of sight!
  • Stargate SG-1 – While Sam Carter should have been the lead character after Richard Dean Anderson left the show, it was not to be.
  • Stargate Atlantis – Ultimately, John Sheppard is the lead character of this series… though Elizabeth Weir and Sam Carter lead the expedition for four seasons and (Meredith) Rodney McKay stole the show with awesomeness.
  • Star Trek: TOS, TNG, ENT – Combined cuz I’m lazy and, well, the Captain is male. ’nuff said.  (DS9 is excluded simply because I haven’t had a chance to watch that series yet.)
  • Star Trek: Voyager – Honestly?  I find most of the male characters rather boring. But, yay, short redheaded female captains ftw!
  • The X-Files – C’mon, there are only two main-main characters (what? I need to separate M+S from Skinner, Reyes and Doggett somehow) and they share the lead pretty well – whilst Mulder will run off without Scully, the weird stuff tends to happen to her, not him.
  • Warehouse 13 – It’s in the vein of The X-Files and Bones so Myka and Pete are co-main characters, I guess
  • Defying Gravity – Ensemble cast, but the two leaders of the expedition are male

So, yeah, long story short?  There generally aren’t any clearly dominant female leads in the stuff I watch.  This also applies to novels (unless they were written for women), but I’m not going to make a massive list of that because A) I’ve read way too many books in my life time and B) I don’t even remember all the names or the authors of most of the books I’ve read.

And I’m not going to bother listing comics because those are written for men and I expect the lead characters to be male and I half expect that the female characters are going to suck.  Some of them don’t, but I find that male writers tend to have women that are just… weird.  They don’t seem like they’re people, y’know?  Not that I’m dissing male writers – the opposite definitely holds true for female writers.  Seriously, read any yaoi recently?  Half of the time one or both of the characters take on a distinctly feminine feel.  And that’s even in fanfic where the character isn’t canonically girly.

Again, the opposite often is true for men writing femslash.

Naturally, I began wondering why it is this way and, wellll, beyond the ‘women/men can’t write men/women’, I haven’t come up with a good reason.  Of course, I’ve come up with reasons, but my idealistic self doesn’t want them to be true and my feminist self doesn’t believe that they’re good reasons.

Simply put, my other reasons all involve sexism – too many male writers/producers/executives that all believe that men could never relate to a female character.  And, thus, for whatever reason they have decided that lead characters must be male because either A) women don’t count (from a marketers standpoint, that’s technically true since, in some workplaces, women still make a lower salary than men.  Add in the fact that it still seems to be women who leave the workforce to raise children and you have a definite skew towards men making, and thus spending, more money.  Thus, you’d want men to be watching the show and commercials and, thus, buying stuff) or, B) they feel that women can relate to men (or throw in a secondary female character for women to relate to).

Yeah.

You can see why I hope that I’m not right.

For interests of full disclosure, I’m kind of guilty of this as well – my lead characters tend to be female and, in the story that still only has a WIP name (currently Forced Fate), my two main characters are both female and, of my three secondary characters, two are male.  Not a very gender balanced cast, but I’d rather have the cast skewed in one direction over it being dead even because casts with exactly as many women as there are men often seem a little bit contrived.  It can be done, but I don’t think I could pull it off.

Besides, I don’t think about that sort of thing while writing – I just come up with characters and put them together.  If they happen to be male, fine by me.  It really does not make a difference to me.

And, perhaps, that’s just how tv is written as well.

But I doubt it.

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  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    Writting the oppisite gender is HARD, or at least it seemed really hard at the start. I don't know if its hard and I've just put so much work into it at this point that its relatively intuitive for me to write for either gender, or if it was always this easy and I was just tricked into thinking it was harder, due to the natural feeling of “otherness”. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think I've put more work into writing good female characters, then I have actually writing. Its something I've always been pretty passionate about, mostly because growing up the female character was literally just a dude even there names were dude names. Its always bugged me. Its kinda what I was gonna touch on in my blog too. XD

    The leads in my comics tend to be dudes merely cause I write what I know. I'd like to do a comic that centered around a female character, but I would be my own harshest critic on such a project. I know I can't write good enough to meet my standards for such a story. I could almost definately do it well enough to impress most other people, but I don't percieve that as a very high bar. I know when people complemented me in the past about my females I was sorta ashamed for them, for thinking I was doing it well XD

    I gotta figure out where it was that I read/listened to this but I remember there being a discussion on why theres so many Buddy Comedy films. they were saying it was because dudes are more likely to see a buddy comedy over a more romantic comedy type of film, even though its the exact same narrative structure. and women don't share the same negative preconceptions against buddy comedies as men do about romantic comedies. So I guess once again the sexist divide is cause straight men do not want to be gay. I think it will get better as the scariness of gay people gets less and less in the future. I mean putting kids into gender roles is still a lot more strictly followed for boys than girls, or at least I perceive it that way. A boy wanting to play with something for “girls” is more terrifying than the reverse situation. is that your perception too?

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    oh wow, i really wrote a lot more then I remember writting, can I just copy paste this and call it my blog entry nikki? XD

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Sure, why not? I mean, it's an inherently interesting topic to both of us after all. And I agree with all of your points, XD Though, I have to point out, if you want to read stuff with good female leads, just talk to me. I've read a TON of YA (mostly fantasy) novels written by women with female leads. They pass my test of not being sucky. And most are actually about gender roles too – I've read a lot of books written in the 80's by some pretty feminist writers.

    The bit about the buddy films is interesting. I can sorta understand that guys wouldn't want to watch rom coms because that is 'gay', but I don't see why they are 'gay' and not buddy films. I mean, romcoms (generally) are about a hetero couple whilst buddy films are about two guys professing their (platonic) love for each other. Maybe it's just me, but I find FAR more slashy undertones in buddy films than I ever would in romcoms.

    And, thus, the same point holds true for the plethora of male leads – wouldn't it be less 'gay' to like a show with a female lead? I mean, then you'd get more boobs on the screen and all.

    Yeah, I agree that boys are forced more into a role than girls these days. It certainly wasn't true in my house since my mom didn't raise me or my brother any differently, but I've had this conversation at work and a lot of people DO raise their girls differently from their boys. I don't see HOW there can be a difference in raising them (other than the birds and the bees) – I've met a ton of 'girly' boys out there and an equal number of tomboys.

    Ah well. Eventually it will switch around so that men are the 'minority' out of the gender roles and they'll make their own version of feminism. I just wish that we would bloody well just learn to treat everyone the same way, regardless of sex. Or race. Or religion. Etc.

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    Look Nikki, I don't make the rules about what is and isn't gay. Its just a subconcious force that attempts to dictate my thoughts, and which I strive to work against it cause I'm not particularly afraid of turning gay.

    Having female leads is more gay, because the female would be talking sexy about men, and thus plant thoughts of sex and other dudes in the same place. which is pretty gay. Plus sometimes they talk about lady issues and that is just an uncomfortable topic… That was actually gonna be part of my blog. I've really been enjoying the tamora pierce books, well book I've only read the first one. Its pretty much exactly the book I woulda liked to have found when I was in that age bracket (albeit secretly, cause I woulda been pretty embarrased if someone knew i read it.). though chapter 6 kinda showed me that I probably wasn't capable of reading that book back then, cause Alanna dealing with her period would have disturbed me deeply. as it was it was still icky, but that also was the feeling of that part of the chapter so it worked.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Ah, so it's completely illogical. Makes sense.

    Yeah, but to male leads talk about that sorta stuff? No? If they do, it doesn't bother ANY women I know. Conclusion? Men are pansies.

    I knew that you'd 'enjoy' the part where she first gets her period. Mwahaha. Poor Alanna.

    Once you're done with Tamora Pierce and if you wish to move onto different authors, I have a list XD It's actually the list of favourite authors I shove in all of those stupid profile things but more complete since I only put in a few per profile.

    I'm on Lioness Rampant, btw. I went out and bought those books and the Immortals Quartet (and one of her new ones) last Saturday. I've actually been reading them slowly… for me.

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    Writting the oppisite gender is HARD, or at least it seemed really hard at the start. I don't know if its hard and I've just put so much work into it at this point that its relatively intuitive for me to write for either gender, or if it was always this easy and I was just tricked into thinking it was harder, due to the natural feeling of “otherness”. It wouldn't be that much of a stretch to think I've put more work into writing good female characters, then I have actually writing. Its something I've always been pretty passionate about, mostly because growing up the female character was literally just a dude even there names were dude names. Its always bugged me. Its kinda what I was gonna touch on in my blog too. XD

    The leads in my comics tend to be dudes merely cause I write what I know. I'd like to do a comic that centered around a female character, but I would be my own harshest critic on such a project. I know I can't write good enough to meet my standards for such a story. I could almost definately do it well enough to impress most other people, but I don't percieve that as a very high bar. I know when people complemented me in the past about my females I was sorta ashamed for them, for thinking I was doing it well XD

    I gotta figure out where it was that I read/listened to this but I remember there being a discussion on why theres so many Buddy Comedy films. they were saying it was because dudes are more likely to see a buddy comedy over a more romantic comedy type of film, even though its the exact same narrative structure. and women don't share the same negative preconceptions against buddy comedies as men do about romantic comedies. So I guess once again the sexist divide is cause straight men do not want to be gay. I think it will get better as the scariness of gay people gets less and less in the future. I mean putting kids into gender roles is still a lot more strictly followed for boys than girls, or at least I perceive it that way. A boy wanting to play with something for “girls” is more terrifying than the reverse situation. is that your perception too?

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    oh wow, i really wrote a lot more then I remember writting, can I just copy paste this and call it my blog entry nikki? XD

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    >:( you are a jerk, for serious.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Sure, why not? I mean, it's an inherently interesting topic to both of us after all. And I agree with all of your points, XD Though, I have to point out, if you want to read stuff with good female leads, just talk to me. I've read a TON of YA (mostly fantasy) novels written by women with female leads. They pass my test of not being sucky. And most are actually about gender roles too – I've read a lot of books written in the 80's by some pretty feminist writers.

    The bit about the buddy films is interesting. I can sorta understand that guys wouldn't want to watch rom coms because that is 'gay', but I don't see why they are 'gay' and not buddy films. I mean, romcoms (generally) are about a hetero couple whilst buddy films are about two guys professing their (platonic) love for each other. Maybe it's just me, but I find FAR more slashy undertones in buddy films than I ever would in romcoms.

    And, thus, the same point holds true for the plethora of male leads – wouldn't it be less 'gay' to like a show with a female lead? I mean, then you'd get more boobs on the screen and all.

    Yeah, I agree that boys are forced more into a role than girls these days. It certainly wasn't true in my house since my mom didn't raise me or my brother any differently, but I've had this conversation at work and a lot of people DO raise their girls differently from their boys. I don't see HOW there can be a difference in raising them (other than the birds and the bees) – I've met a ton of 'girly' boys out there and an equal number of tomboys.

    Ah well. Eventually it will switch around so that men are the 'minority' out of the gender roles and they'll make their own version of feminism. I just wish that we would bloody well just learn to treat everyone the same way, regardless of sex. Or race. Or religion. Etc.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Yeah. I thought we all knew that?

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    we do, but I still thought it needed to be reemphasised.

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    Look Nikki, I don't make the rules about what is and isn't gay. Its just a subconcious force that attempts to dictate my thoughts, and which I strive to work against it cause I'm not particularly afraid of turning gay.

    Having female leads is more gay, because the female would be talking sexy about men, and thus plant thoughts of sex and other dudes in the same place. which is pretty gay. Plus sometimes they talk about lady issues and that is just an uncomfortable topic… That was actually gonna be part of my blog. I've really been enjoying the tamora pierce books, well book I've only read the first one. Its pretty much exactly the book I woulda liked to have found when I was in that age bracket (albeit secretly, cause I woulda been pretty embarrased if someone knew i read it.). though chapter 6 kinda showed me that I probably wasn't capable of reading that book back then, cause Alanna dealing with her period would have disturbed me deeply. as it was it was still icky, but that also was the feeling of that part of the chapter so it worked.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Ah, so it's completely illogical. Makes sense.

    Yeah, but to male leads talk about that sorta stuff? No? If they do, it doesn't bother ANY women I know. Conclusion? Men are pansies.

    I knew that you'd 'enjoy' the part where she first gets her period. Mwahaha. Poor Alanna.

    Once you're done with Tamora Pierce and if you wish to move onto different authors, I have a list XD It's actually the list of favourite authors I shove in all of those stupid profile things but more complete since I only put in a few per profile.

    I'm on Lioness Rampant, btw. I went out and bought those books and the Immortals Quartet (and one of her new ones) last Saturday. I've actually been reading them slowly… for me.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Ah.

    Okay.

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    >:( you are a jerk, for serious.

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    >:( you are a jerk, for serious.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Yeah. I thought we all knew that?

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Yeah. I thought we all knew that?

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    we do, but I still thought it needed to be reemphasised.

  • http://www.monoclelad.com monoclelad

    we do, but I still thought it needed to be reemphasised.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Ah.

    Okay.

  • http://anovelconcept.net aethre

    Ah.

    Okay.

  • http://monoclelad.com/2009/08/heh-women-amirite/ Monocle Lad » Archive » Heh, women, amirite?

    [...] is going to be a continuation of the discussion I’ve been having with Nikki over at her blog.  Its a conversation that I personally really enjoy having. The horrid way women have been written [...]